Aerodynamics are easily but expensively quantified. Weight is easily and cheaply measured, but in reality it's difficult to quantify. People like the feel of light stuff, wheels in particular. Whether that's a scientifically valid feeling or placebo, I can't say. Shallower rims look like they should be lighter, and deeper rims look like they should be heavier. Put two otherwise exactly matched bikes on the rack at the bottom of a hill, but put a set of deep wheels on one and shallow wheels on the other, and ask people to choose a bike to climb and descend said hill. My guess is that nearly 100% of people would choose the shallower ones.
The two most popular questions we've gotten regarding the AI33 rims thus far are "will they fit in my bike?" and "how does the weight compare to x?" I can't answer the first question universally, but the second one is easy because the AI33s we have weigh 470g per rim. Some people are skeptical that a rim as deep and wide can be 470 and have requisite strength and durability, which is somewhat funny because the Kinlin XR31 is very nearly as deep and almost as wide is a 485g rim and people think they're tanks. Other people look at the AI33 compared to a 400 or 425g rim and say "boat anchor." For me, the boundaries described by the ~450g Easton R90SL at the light (but not as deep or wide) end and the Kinlin is great territory for road rims.
Adding to this is that more people are choosing to do their organized riding in gran fondos and centuries and big ass gravel rides and fewer people are road racing. I know that road racing racer days in the US are officially down, which lines up with what we hear from people. If you're riding a gran fondo, it seems logical to me that you'd want wheels that feel great - that are lively and light and offer perfect control - versus a racing environment where you just want any go fast help you can wring out of your wheels. And if I go on a nice two hour ride by myself or with friends, I don't much care about the 15 or 20 (or 60 or 90) seconds I may be giving away by less than optimized aerodynamics, I really just want everything to work and feel great.
But that's the challenging thing - how much weight is too much weight? Does the fact that AI33 rims each weigh 100g per rim less than Flo 30 rims make a tangible difference? Do any of the analytic calculators that always say that aerodynamics trumps weight actually accurately model weight's effects? And does feel indicate any physiological effect, or is it all just a feeling?
More questions than answers today.
10 comments
I just cam.e across your web-site,I'm buying a new bike this winter or spring.My wind-pipe is 70% to 98% closed all the time.The more exertion the more it closes.I ride some of the mountain passes in Summit county,co. in the summer.I also ride with groups in the 16,17,18, mph. range.All of it takes everything I have.I would like to build a wheelset in the 1300 gram range and try to get some depth also .If you have any ideas, my ears are open.
Hey I just saw that you guys had hooked up with Mike Wissell – he was a (whip-smart; top-of-the-class; creative) student of mine a while back. Say hi if you're still in touch! He'll recognize my fixation with designing and running experiments. :)
Thanks Dave! I'm very sorry to hear that you'll no longer be making Rails and Ranges—if I had the coin, I'd be riding a set of Ranges already. I'm hoping AForce makes the Al33 available sooner rather than later, and wish you much success with Select alloy wheels.
Before the AI33 becomes available, we will have coordinated (but not picked up the tab for – our input on this is consultative) a wind tunnel trip with it and a bunch of other rims that can not fail to give an excellent indication of the "less than what you'd be necessarily looking for in a tt if you were good at tts" type of aerodynamics. And who knows, there may be a surprise in there.Our AI33 info is no tease, it's just not our rim (people seem to be picking up that it is – it is not) and thus we're not in control of when it's available. But having spent all summer on them, the minute they're available we're going to offer them as a standard deal. I also think the Range is a superb design, thank you (I designed it). Unfortunately other news has superseded that.
Erik,Talk to him regularly, and I knew he was smart, but had no idea he was a leading light in a field of which I'm not smart enough to even be aware, and which I can't spell. Impressive! Poppy,Sounds like a pretty brutal situation there. I don't think I'd be riding a bike if I was in your shoes. Quite simply, you won't hit 1300g with any clincher that's got any depth except if you spend like $3000 or more. There are wheels that can get you close-ish. But we're not weight weenies, at all. In fact we'd tell you that chasing an arbitrary gram number like 1300 is a pretty senseless exercise that's more likely to lead you to compromises which you'll later regret. You could do exceptionally well in the mid 1400s fairly easily with clinchers, or get carbon tubulars (which we don't sell) and get to your 1300g target quite easily. Dave